Share With Joy

Saturday, April 01, 2006

Outlook: Lower Marriage Rates Among Blacks

Joy Jones
Author

The Washington Post
Monday, March 27, 2006; 2:00 PM

"Marriage is for white people." That's what an African American sixth-grader said to author Joy Jones when she taught in a D.C. public school a few years back. Though the comment took her aback, she quickly realized that, at least statistically, the boy was right: According to the U.S. Census, African Americans have the highest unmarried ratio of any racial group in the United States. African American women are the least likely in our society to marry. Marriage rates for blacks have been declining since the 1960s. Blacks, in short, are the most uncoupled people in the country. Why is this the case, and what does it mean for marriage?

Joy Jones was online Monday, March 27, at 2 p.m. ET to discuss her Sunday Outlook article, 'Marriage Is for White People', (Post, March 26, 2006), and the state of marriage in black America today.

See complete transcript.

80 Comments:

At April 04, 2006 11:58 AM, lynnwash said…

Do you think blacks will change their minds and get married more often?
At April 05, 2006 1:26 AM, iamanimal said…

-African American women are the least likely in our society to marry.

Aren't African American men less likely to marry than women are? This is a great article btw - thought provoking.
At April 05, 2006 10:17 AM, nlka said…

So what are the solutions? Where are the black men that want to get married and have a healthy relationship? Are there any out there?

Is the black family headed toward extinction?

great article!
At April 10, 2006 2:45 PM, Interested said…

Sounds like ...well I won't go there yet. But, in my humble opinion, this snippet of the below article sums up the "reason" for the decline in marriage and the answers the question, "why people wait to marry or opt out of marriage all together (and just for the record, I think opting out is a mistake - companionship is key; but that's another topic).

"Why should well-salaried women marry?" asked black feminist and author Alice Dunbar-Nelson as early as 1895. But now instead of access only to low-paying jobs, we can earn a breadwinner's wage, which has changed what we want in a husband. "Women's expectations have changed dramatically while men's have not changed much at all," said one well-paid working wife and mother. "Women now say, 'Providing is not enough. I need more partnership.' "

This article STRONGLY implies that this phenomena is mostly the result of a lack of maturity on the part black men. Sounds too simplistic an argument to me and it also takes a pretty weak position by placing the blame solely on the shoulders of one party in the relationship. Maybe the "problem" has presented as a result of a paradigm shift; a BIG change in why relationships formed, a BIG change in how relationships are formed, and a BIG change in how relationships are maintained. It could be the case that these three things have shifted so abruptly and are so different (strange) that what we are now experiencing is ...confusion. It could be the case that we, men AND women, don't know what to do; how best to operate in this changing world of relationship\partnership. And it could be the case that no one is at fault - maybe it is just a case of growing pains.

Black identity is in flux on many fronts - why wouldn't relationships be one of those fronts in transition.

Okay I'm done - I could speak on this at length but... Keep the dialogue flowing!
At April 11, 2006 6:39 PM, Me said…

Sad to say, I am living this life. In my 20s and early 30s, I really wanted to be married, and have kids. But every guy I dated just wanted to have fun. Settling down seemed to be less palatable than the electric chair! Now I'm 36, and every guy in what I consider to be my "dating peer group" is looking to settle down and be a daddy. But at this point in my life, I want something different from marriage than I did 10 years ago, and many guys I've dated can understand that. And I definitely don't want to have kids! So there is a disconnect. So it looks like I'll be single, and I'm learning to accept that.
At April 17, 2006 8:03 PM, Anonymous said…

My homegirl recently sent me your 1991 article Are Black Women Scaring Off Their Men I must say. Frankly I'm appalled by the notion that a successful, accomplished woman operates in her intimate relationships as she does in her business relationships. Dumbfounded by the idea that I must decide between pursuing depth of
knowledge in a subject which I love and positioning myself to be
viewed as lovable...because I'll only have one set of tools for my
relationship.

I would prefer that brothas spend some time communicating what they
feel and why rather than shrouding themselves in doubt, fear,
intimidation and random/ uncommitted sexcapades. What better way to
build intimacy. Seems that brothas have nothing to loose by admitting
to their woman the insecurities that every article on black love seems
to expose. Sistas have everything to gain by healing their man''s
bruised feelings.

I had a platonic brotha friend explain to me once... that he was at a
loss when his wife said "I want you to be home more." Based on her
request, the brotha had no idea how to please her. Had she said...I
wish you could be here by 5 on Tuesday nights and before on 8 on one
or two other nights out of the week. Then he would be in a position to
meet her needs and balance his work with concrete parameters. Why this
brotha could explain it clearly to me but not to his wife is beyond
me...but at the end of the day for whatever reason he couldn't. And
you guessed it, the problem was not ever effectively resolved in their
relationship.

In one other example, on more than one occasion a brotha told his girl
about all the "slices" he was turning down. The sista felt totally
disrespected by the disclosure...and suggested that if that's what the
brotha wanted perhaps he should have at it. Now, as a neutral party
(and after learning about the brotha psyche from by brotha friends) I
could see that the brotha disclosed the information as a way to
demonstrate his fidelity and commitment to his girlfriend. Sista and I
rapped about it and she opened the subject again with the brotha and
the two were able to share their feelings and effectively move past
the issue.

When did we become so afraid of our feelings? A more effective
analysis of our relationship crisis may reveal that the issues have
less to do with what an individual woman has accomplished...(I'm not
sure that non-college educated/ unemployed sistas have greater rates
of marriage or long-term monogamy) and more to do with sister
insecurity about infidelity/disrespect from brothas and brotha
insecurity about having a position which cannot be replicated or
filled by the woman alone. Were we able to talk with each other, I
think that we could build intimacy and respect.

Newsflash: Brothas and Sistas there are not a lot of worthwhile fish
in the sea...we all need to get over ourselves stop seeing or mates as
the enemy and rebuild the black family. Be a good friend...tell your
homegirl/homeboy when they are off-base.

Sistas we must get the brothas to talk with us...Brothas, use concrete
examples of how our perspectives differ on a situation explain the
meaning behind your behaviors so we can understand you. . As the
Triple-Degree-Heat type sista (Undergrad, Masters and JD) I want brothas to know that I love 'em.
If they man up and talk to me...I'll be woman enough to listen. And
please Lord, vice-versa. Am I right on any of this?

Thanks for your patience guys. Please weigh in.

YA, Esq. in Los Angeles
(For the record...I am in a sucessfull relationship.)
At May 16, 2006 9:36 AM, Venese Dejernett said…

I have come up with another question for you...Why do African American marry? The laws were writen for whites. I have asked my friends both male and female. Most refer to our religious upbringings, rituals and beliefs but did God show us the marriage ceremony when he gave Eve to Adam, I don't think so. I have been unable to find anything in the Bible that refers to the ceremony ritual. For the most part, if we are in committed relationsships, with or without children, we act as married componenents. This question came up for me a 50 year old divorced mother of 4, when in my most recent relationship, he started to talk of us marrying and I asked why? What would we have after the ceremony and signing on the dotted line that we don't have now? Do we emulate laws created for and by our white counterparts just as we have become acclimatized to their theory of the disposable society (divorce, nursing homes, foster care, etc).
At June 21, 2006 6:18 AM, Tiwanda Lovelace said…

Girl you are starting a frenzy on myspace.com - Men are using your article to say that black women are the problem in relationship.

I disagree.

First of all I recognized that a woman wrote this article - I also saw that you wanted to use this article to prove that black women have a problem -

just because one woman (who just turned 30) believes that it's her fault she's single does not validate that black women do not know how to let the man lead in the household.

I ignored that and told you what the real problem is - most black men do not value their women nor do they take any responsibility -

A strong black women or any women for that matter will not let just any man lead her.

As I stated earlier, I have been on both sides of the fence - while you're rejoicing at one woman's inability to recognize that she is not the problem you need to check yo self about how quick you are to attack a sista.

This problem with relationships involving black men running out on his responsibilities and putting his own desires first
has been around longer than that 30 year old strong black
woman and myself ( aging beautifully).

Look at you - trying to call someone defensive? Face the truth brothers - you're the one that needs a defense!

We handle our responsibilities. Oh and I ain't mad at you- just trying to educate my young brothers- the change starts with you.

tiwandalovelace@yahoo.com
At July 13, 2006 10:16 PM, Anonymous said…

Greeting Joy Jones, I read your article and I wanted to post a response I wrote in a forum discussing this topic:

I have to say when I read this article I was appaulled. This seems like an all out attempt to slow down the progress of black women on all fronts just so she can keep her man. Depending on your view on life, some think the purpose of life is to go to school, find your soul-mate, get married, have children, and then live to die.....God forbid if a woman and a black woman at that feels like she has a greater purpose in life. To think in this day and age that for a black woman to be independent, self sufficient, determinated, and motivated is a bad thing. First to the author of the article where is your self-esteem, your sense of self worth. This is not an I don't need a man attack, but I'm whole with or without a man. That I'm worthy of love of self. Self love is what is missing and why many relationships fail. No knowledge of oneself, no direction, and misguided motives are reasons why women are not able to hold on to their relationships. And....And I repeat if a man is completely confident in his manhood, there is no feeling of it ever being challenged by a woman because to him it is not possible....he knows who he is inside and out. A strong brotha needs a strong sista, someone who is independent, self sufficient, determined, and motivated and a strong brotha recognizes that. Get it together please cause this is just a crock of bull...

Thank you,
nklinlee@msn.com
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At March 18, 2007 12:59 PM, Anonymous said…

well said Tiwanda!!!!

The author does make a good point, in that we do need to look at ourselves, which is true. I know my problem is the type of men I like. My problem is also, the men I think are available to me. I'm 26. So I'm looking for a guy not over 30 and black. The black men that age, are so caught up into BET/MTV, going to the club everyday if they can, sleeping with any and everybody. So, for women like me who are attracted to men like that, we do play the fool, we accept men like that, for the sake of having some type of man in our life. Now that I am wiser, I realize I do not want that and I will no longer settle for crap. Then on other hand, I have allowed myself to be mistreated and used by men, that I am not interested in dating at all, because now they want to sweet talk you, tell you your beautiful, your this your that, your the only one, and then it all ends up being a lie. So I feel like the name of the game is tell them(women) what they want to hear and all that she has to give will be up for the taking. And once they(men) have used you, they are on to their next victim.

Then I say why shld I blame myself, we all have the right to love and be loved, to not be decieved or lied to. I see it everyday women being misled, heartbroken, betrayed, or fighting over a man. Why are yall fighting he played you both, but its cause you believe the dream he sold you. Well I am not buying it anymore. Thats why I occupy my time with school, work, spa retreats its for me and my sanity. I don't feel like I am going to be a misreable old spinister. I am not angry just wiser and I have made a choice for what I think is best for me.

So part of my problem is that I limit myself to thinking black men are all thats avaliable to me. Then the second part is whether he's a decent man on the surface (no matter the race), I get scared because no one has treated me so nice, taking me out, not wanting sex, being attentive to me, being available to me, wanting to go out all the time, I get scared...in my mind I am saying---what does he want from me, or I am cyncial I say sugar is gonna turn to shit, at any rate I push them away, I change my #, I stop answering their calls, I flip on them, curse them out real bad. I dont believe I'm good enough to be treated this way.A good example of this wld be a poor girl catching the attention of a rich mamn. Your intimadated and apprhersive, why wld a man of status want to be bothered wuth a girl like me.

So to sum me up, I am responible in a sense that I choose, bad men but how the hell should I know their bad, no let me not say that. I chose to put up with crap, when I really and truly can do better. But along the way I've just grown tired and now scared. So the safest thing for me and my sanity, and my emotions, is to be by myself. Life isnt always about getting married and having kids. Yes I know it is a serious issue among our race, as far as relationships and the future of our race goes....but look at the movies, televison, magazines.....

Look at the lack of black women in leading roles, in commercials, in tv shows...etc. Look at your kids Saturday morning lineup where are the black shows, nevermind that where are the black girls, the black women.

What about the onslaught of movies, commercials, tv shows, with leading black men, and the leading women is a white woman or a latina, or the love interest is that of a white women or latina.

So we get past all that and we do get a black women, she's mixed, she's fair skinned, she looks latina or white. The last time I checked the color black meant just that black, and we come in all shades, yet thats what we have representing ALL OF US.

MTV's real world, their is never a shortage of black men on the show. Then I try to make sense of it and I say, well maybe black women are not interested in auditiong for a show like that. They are not ineterested in being in movies...etc

And lets not get started on BET--all their hosts(the one's that get alot of airplay) are fair skinned, wavy/curly/straight hair/ or hispanic. Even with in the hispanic race they vary in skin tones light to dark. Then our music videos, the R&B, the rap videos.....and this is stuff that the youth is watching. And I can say for my age...then men pretty much act as if there life is a music video.

Then I look in my workplace I cld literally count all the black men, on both hands and toes, but the# of black women-----wooooo, lets just say its to damn much.

So my question is where are our men? We already have a limited # of them, why? And its not because they all happily married and supporting a family.

Reading Joy's article about us scaring men away, not that we dont have time for them while in pursuit of education or career, but where were they when all this was taking place. Yea black men have alot of stigmatism against them, but so do we. We are black and we are women.

It seems black men are the only men that degrade their women, wont support them, wont build them up, just tear them down. Just look at the single mothers, young and old. I think black men have a hard time accepting black women as they are, they dont find us attractive, if you wear you hair short, nautrual, dreaded. They think your supposed to look like Beyonce. Then I look at it this way if Halle Berry and Christina Milian can get cheated on, then what does it say for the rest of us.

And when I say black men I dont mean all of them, there are a few (i suppose) that don't fall into the things that I have mentioned. I'm just speaking on my experience...and if you can relate. Please do share. So Joy can get the full scope of things. Their are alot of things that come into play when dicussing the plight of Black on Black relationships.

--Canm4@yahoo.com
At June 18, 2007 10:51 AM, Publisherab@aol.com said…

I am a 37year black British woman living in America. When I was growing up in England, there weren't many Black people period, and our community tried to stick together as best they could. I am first generation black British, and my generation was the first to go to school with prodominately white classmates. As we grew into teenagers, some young men would test the waters, and date white women. Soon the rumor began to fly: White women are better, they don't argue with their men, they don't give men stress - all sterotypes of course, but people began to believe them, and so many of our men ended up marring, dating and settling down with white women.

However, there is another side to that story, which is that there was still a high percentage of Black men, who simply love Black women. I have five brothers and 4 are married or dating a Black woman. Most of their friends are with Black women, and nearly 98% of my girlfriends in the UK are dating Black men, because ther is a lot of Black pride in the UK amoung that group.

So, here I am in America, after years of watching Shaft, reading imported copies of Ebony, thinking that there's going to be nuff Black love in the USA. But all I've come upon (I'd say about 60% of my friends), and I hate to say this, 'cause I have many African-American friends and I care for many of them - is a bunch of people who are highly emotionally damaged, confused, who have bought in to sterotypes that white people, white life is more civilized, better etc., than Black life.

I can't tell you how many nights I've stayed up on the phone with a girlfriend or a male friend who'd been in a dysfunctional relationship with another Black person, and was fraustrated and distraut because the fact that they forget to keep in mind, is that most relationship problems are ' Just Problems' and it's not always because a person is of a particular race. Dr. Gray realized this when he wrote 'Men Are From Mars Women Are From Venus' . White, Spanish and Europeans have jacked-up relationships too, and they don't go around saying that all Spanish are bad, or all Whites are bad, and then spend time promoting degrading sterotypes about their race. They just don't do it. And I'm not saying that when relationships go sour that there aren't aspects of where it is 'A Black Thing' but in my opinion it's only a small percentage of what the real problem is.

Just because a person is educated, well paid doesn't mean that they aren't carring baggage. They may have had a disturbing childhood, or issues with their mother or dad. Many of my most educated friends in corporate America complain about having no man or no woman, 'cause they have built up this long list of criterias about what their partner must have and then when they can't find it, they get bitter and fraustrated.

In my opinion, I think that their has to be more 'love' between African-Americans - theirs so many sterotypes - the no-good-baby daddy, the gangsta - the wannabe rapper - the house------, and I think these should be replaced with powerful images in media, televison and internet. Because if all you keep hearing is all this negativity, if all you keep seeing is black women in videos shaking the ass, and black men degrading them in these videos, and films that show black men doing crimes, cursing and sleeping around - Then all that becomes your reality.

You can look on MTV, or VHI, or ABC, FOX or any of those channels, and you don't see white men running a credit card down a white woman's ass, like you can see Nelly do on BET. This degration has to STOP!! And then we wonder why a Black man doesn't want to commit, has problems with fidelity, dates white women, and black women feel betrayed, unloved, unappreciated - it's all in the images that are around us.

When we look back in history, and we reflect on the Harlem Renassaiance, where black arts, businesses and relationships were thriving - it's because not only was their black pride, and respect for each other, their were artists, writers, musicians, poets, political thinkers that were promoting positive sterotypes, images, words about Blackness.

This is not a man problem, this is not a woman problem - this is an image problem.

WE BETTER STEP UP!!
At June 26, 2007 6:43 AM, Ben Jones said…

I am a white man in my 50's. I believe in marriage to the extent that when my first wife died after 24 years of marriage, I would not even consider having a sexual relationship until I remarried. However, I was not always that way. When I was in college, it was generally understood that people could do whatever they wanted because of the availability of contraceptives and that marriage was an outmoded tradition. I found however that I was rather shy and awkward. Having rejected religion and finding the drinking scene rather abhorrent, I found few opportunities to even connect with women. When I finally did get over my shyness, I dated several women at the same time. All were either divorced or had been through bad relationships but the curious thing was that the one I liked the best was the one who was religious. She seemed to have a stronger sense of who she was and what she was about. I ended up marrying her, adopting her 3 half-grown children, and having 3 more children together. Fairly quickly, I got religion as well. It was and is a wonderful experience. After my wife died, I remarried within my faith and became a step-grandfather to 6 delightful youngsters.

It has not been all bliss. Life has been a struggle with career changes, debts, wayward children, sickness, etc. but it has been wonderful to share it with someone. I've come to appreciate how much of how you enjoy life depends on what you believe in.

Belief is not merely about being zapped by a mysterious force but it is choosing to follow teachings that reinforce what you believe in. It is very important for you to understand what you believe, what your co-religionists believe, and what you and they teach your children to believe so that you all may achieve the kind of society that you aspire to have.
At February 17, 2008 12:28 AM, Anonymous said…

Joy,

I just google linked to your wash times article 'marriage is for white people.' One element that rarely comes to discussion is that wealthy people love a large unmarried populace. They tend to work very hard to maintain a single houshold, and they spend all their extra money on self indulgance / primping. They buy all manner of useless luxury goods: i.e. william sonoma stuff to put in their empty kitchens trying to give it the meaning they think a kitchen should have.

My wife and I saved 75k in tax advantaged savings last year (2007) alone, which was only our first year as a married couple! We also paid off ALL of our consumer debt (35k) that we aquired during our single years. To top it off, we have 18k in our baby fund, which will help with any expenses that pop up when she drops to part time (though at 65$ per hour she will still contribute handsomely to her 403b/457). And with more time to be a parent, my wife will help ensure our kids will be as happy/succesful as we are!

All in all, I support a trend toward self centered living, it makes those of us at the top much better off. We will actually have photo-albums and memories, paid for out of the singles' pocket, while they will have only fancy pots and furniture. And when it comes time to retire, we rich people will stay at home in comfort, with home assistants and visiting family members. The single folks can be carted off to the nearest nursing home that accepts low rent to be visited twice yearly by their dysfunctional family members (who themselves will be making me rich by that time).

I love poor people, and support their pursuit of costly vanity and genital pleasures.

Good luck!
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Share With Joy

Saturday, April 01, 2006

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